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	<title>Comments on: Zombie Survival Plan</title>
	<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/</link>
	<description>Utterly random, incoherent and disjointed rants and ramblings...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Jaba</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10876</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10876</guid>
					<description>THE FINAL SOLUTION:
http://hackaday.com/2008/12/01/real-life-lancer/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THE FINAL SOLUTION:<br />
<a href="http://hackaday.com/2008/12/01/real-life-lancer/" rel="nofollow">http://hackaday.com/2008/12/01/real-life-lancer/</a>
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		<title>by: Jaba</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10752</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10752</guid>
					<description>As I said, I'd do that for training, weaponry and first-impact survival...

Who said disertion? Man, it wasn't me, sure! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said, I&#8217;d do that for training, weaponry and first-impact survival&#8230;</p>
<p>Who said disertion? Man, it wasn&#8217;t me, sure! <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=")" class="wp-smiley" />
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		<title>by: Luke Maciak</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10751</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10751</guid>
					<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-10749" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jaba&lt;/a&gt;: Joining the army might be a bad idea though. Chances are you will be sent to infected areas on cleanse or control missions. You will be on the front lines so to speak and if the going gets tough you can't just make a run for it. You will be bound to your unit, and if you have orders to hold a location you will be stuck there for a long time. Probably longer than the window of opportunity for escaping without a scratch is open for you.

Nah, I think it is far better to be a civilian - you retain your independence and mobility and no one will expect you to heroically stay behind and cover their backs while they retreat.

Also, note how in Zombie movies army people usually die early (more or less heroically) or end up serving under some megalomaniac officer who thinks the zombie outbreak is a good excuse to start up his own little military dictatorship going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-10749" rel="nofollow">Jaba</a>: Joining the army might be a bad idea though. Chances are you will be sent to infected areas on cleanse or control missions. You will be on the front lines so to speak and if the going gets tough you can&#8217;t just make a run for it. You will be bound to your unit, and if you have orders to hold a location you will be stuck there for a long time. Probably longer than the window of opportunity for escaping without a scratch is open for you.</p>
<p>Nah, I think it is far better to be a civilian - you retain your independence and mobility and no one will expect you to heroically stay behind and cover their backs while they retreat.</p>
<p>Also, note how in Zombie movies army people usually die early (more or less heroically) or end up serving under some megalomaniac officer who thinks the zombie outbreak is a good excuse to start up his own little military dictatorship going.
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		<title>by: Jaba</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10749</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10749</guid>
					<description>:D ahahhaah, wonderful, wonderful! :D
Ok, any long-incubation disease can spread anywhere there are suitable hosts, even in the cold. But I think if there's cold enough, and zombies can't keep themselves warm, nor keep an abandoned house at best conditions, the infection can be circumscribed. There would be controls for anyone entering an house, looking for bites or scratches.
However, if zombies are at "I am legend" intelligence level (please, don't tell me in the film they're vampires and not zombies :D that's the real difference between the film and the book, do you agree?), they could prepare themselves to survive even in cold environment.

Well, let's wait this to happen, and let's try! We are at the limit of design, now we have to step into implementation!

And, just for better security, I think I'll join the Army... :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>:D ahahhaah, wonderful, wonderful! <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="D" class="wp-smiley" /><br />
Ok, any long-incubation disease can spread anywhere there are suitable hosts, even in the cold. But I think if there&#8217;s cold enough, and zombies can&#8217;t keep themselves warm, nor keep an abandoned house at best conditions, the infection can be circumscribed. There would be controls for anyone entering an house, looking for bites or scratches.<br />
However, if zombies are at &#8220;I am legend&#8221; intelligence level (please, don&#8217;t tell me in the film they&#8217;re vampires and not zombies <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="D" class="wp-smiley" />  that&#8217;s the real difference between the film and the book, do you agree?), they could prepare themselves to survive even in cold environment.</p>
<p>Well, let&#8217;s wait this to happen, and let&#8217;s try! We are at the limit of design, now we have to step into implementation!</p>
<p>And, just for better security, I think I&#8217;ll join the Army&#8230; <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt="P" class="wp-smiley" />
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		<title>by: Luke Maciak</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10748</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10748</guid>
					<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-10746" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jaba&lt;/a&gt;: Here is an interesting point: you say that the locals cannot be infected, but they can. You could easily bring the contagion to them. Let's say one of the people in your party was bitten and hid it. You settle in a small snowy town way up north, and that person turns, bites few other people and you have your own mini outbreak going on.

The safety of that town relies on the fact that most zombies would freeze before reaching it. But once they are in, they could easily move from one heated building to another within town killing people.

Most movies imply that zombies have no self-preservation instinct so the hope is that sooner or later they would take to wandering the streets looking for pray and thus freeze. But there is always an off chance that some of them are still stuck in various buildings.

But this is not a rule. One could argue that Zombies would have some self preservation instinct. After all, all living animals have some thermal regulation fail safes hard-coded into their brains. If we assume that zombies are caused by a biological or chemical agent of some sort, that severely damages the frontal lobes and makes the victims revert to primal, predator/hunter mode and heightens their aggression (as opposed to magical un-life explanation) then chances are that the fear of freezing would still be there. 

Thus we could see zombies hunting on schedules - congregating inside heated buildings to "thaw out" every once in a while. Either that or just lying in wait until something worthwhile comes along and then sprinting out into the cold.

If that was the case though the cleansing strategy would be pretty straightforward - cut the heat to any of the abandoned houses and wait. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-10746" rel="nofollow">Jaba</a>: Here is an interesting point: you say that the locals cannot be infected, but they can. You could easily bring the contagion to them. Let&#8217;s say one of the people in your party was bitten and hid it. You settle in a small snowy town way up north, and that person turns, bites few other people and you have your own mini outbreak going on.</p>
<p>The safety of that town relies on the fact that most zombies would freeze before reaching it. But once they are in, they could easily move from one heated building to another within town killing people.</p>
<p>Most movies imply that zombies have no self-preservation instinct so the hope is that sooner or later they would take to wandering the streets looking for pray and thus freeze. But there is always an off chance that some of them are still stuck in various buildings.</p>
<p>But this is not a rule. One could argue that Zombies would have some self preservation instinct. After all, all living animals have some thermal regulation fail safes hard-coded into their brains. If we assume that zombies are caused by a biological or chemical agent of some sort, that severely damages the frontal lobes and makes the victims revert to primal, predator/hunter mode and heightens their aggression (as opposed to magical un-life explanation) then chances are that the fear of freezing would still be there. </p>
<p>Thus we could see zombies hunting on schedules - congregating inside heated buildings to &#8220;thaw out&#8221; every once in a while. Either that or just lying in wait until something worthwhile comes along and then sprinting out into the cold.</p>
<p>If that was the case though the cleansing strategy would be pretty straightforward - cut the heat to any of the abandoned houses and wait. <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=")" class="wp-smiley" />
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		<title>by: Jaba</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10746</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10746</guid>
					<description>Another point, Luke: I say Canada, just becausa Canada *cannot* be infected. Even in middle summer, if infection spreads in the south, just go to the north.

Let's suppose the means to spread the infection. Let's simply say, air, water and living things. Well, Canada is big enough to find a place where wind and water comes from the north. As for living things, you don't have to worry about humans. Animals from milder climates in general, and wich don't care about preservation, would simply become ice scultures - even in summer, if you go north (or even high) enough.

How much north, or high? Well, it's not difficult: just enough for anything to be frozen. You don't need the -20°C, you just need the 0°C. I don't know about the climate in northern US in summer, but maybe in the right places you wouldn't even need to leave the US.

How about surviving in such places? The trick here is that you're not alone. This places are inhabitated, and locals cannot be contaged, as you would being here. Even if it would mean a technological jump back of a century, even if it would be a really hard life, would you prefere living in a town, surrounded by zombies?

One last word about the "let's fight them back" comments. I won't argue with you, I'd like the hunt me too very very much. Lots of targets, an excuse to use big weapons, patriotism everywere and so on.
But look at every, every zombies film. There everytime is a moment, a single moment, of risk. One, two, some times many instants, where a single false step would mean non-life, until someone shots your head - may be years.
Would you really risk that? A weapon that doesn't work, a round blocked in the chamber, an unusual weapon that just you figure too late how to unsafe. You throw a granade in the middle of a group, just to discover you looted smoke granades. You pick up ammos, and their the wrong kind for your weapon of choice. You run 2 minutes with a 10 kilos load of iron - rifles and ammos -, and then you can't no more and you're surrounded.

In videogames, every character seems to be fully trained to use any weapon you find. In films, you have an expert (or maniac :P ) in every group. In real life, there's no save game. Think about that.
The only persons that really would fight back, are soldiers. Well trained, well armed, move in packs, are ready anytime to everything.
Join the army tomorrow, or be prepared to run north, I say ^_^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another point, Luke: I say Canada, just becausa Canada *cannot* be infected. Even in middle summer, if infection spreads in the south, just go to the north.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s suppose the means to spread the infection. Let&#8217;s simply say, air, water and living things. Well, Canada is big enough to find a place where wind and water comes from the north. As for living things, you don&#8217;t have to worry about humans. Animals from milder climates in general, and wich don&#8217;t care about preservation, would simply become ice scultures - even in summer, if you go north (or even high) enough.</p>
<p>How much north, or high? Well, it&#8217;s not difficult: just enough for anything to be frozen. You don&#8217;t need the -20°C, you just need the 0°C. I don&#8217;t know about the climate in northern US in summer, but maybe in the right places you wouldn&#8217;t even need to leave the US.</p>
<p>How about surviving in such places? The trick here is that you&#8217;re not alone. This places are inhabitated, and locals cannot be contaged, as you would being here. Even if it would mean a technological jump back of a century, even if it would be a really hard life, would you prefere living in a town, surrounded by zombies?</p>
<p>One last word about the &#8220;let&#8217;s fight them back&#8221; comments. I won&#8217;t argue with you, I&#8217;d like the hunt me too very very much. Lots of targets, an excuse to use big weapons, patriotism everywere and so on.<br />
But look at every, every zombies film. There everytime is a moment, a single moment, of risk. One, two, some times many instants, where a single false step would mean non-life, until someone shots your head - may be years.<br />
Would you really risk that? A weapon that doesn&#8217;t work, a round blocked in the chamber, an unusual weapon that just you figure too late how to unsafe. You throw a granade in the middle of a group, just to discover you looted smoke granades. You pick up ammos, and their the wrong kind for your weapon of choice. You run 2 minutes with a 10 kilos load of iron - rifles and ammos -, and then you can&#8217;t no more and you&#8217;re surrounded.</p>
<p>In videogames, every character seems to be fully trained to use any weapon you find. In films, you have an expert (or maniac <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt="P" class="wp-smiley" />  ) in every group. In real life, there&#8217;s no save game. Think about that.<br />
The only persons that really would fight back, are soldiers. Well trained, well armed, move in packs, are ready anytime to everything.<br />
Join the army tomorrow, or be prepared to run north, I say ^_^
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		<title>by: Jaba</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10745</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10745</guid>
					<description>Permit me to answer with another question.
Do you think the state of Canada has an emergency plan in the case of zombies invasion from the south?
The question here is not "How would everybody survive", but "How would YOU survive - what's your plan". I don't think a lot of even northen americans would think to go even norther (is "norther" a word?? :P ), and anyway if they would I don't think Canadian borders are ready to contain an invasion from the south of this dimension. They would have to mobilize the entire army, and this requires days. Even so, the border between US and Canada is incredibly - I mean, really, it's very difficult to understand how much it's - LONG. I don't think you would have any problem in breaking the fences in an isolated place.
US have a very strong policy about immigration and emigration, so I bet their border controls are oversized for normal traffic. But Canadians have not this concern: from the south, there's US doing controls, and east, west and north there's ocean (and alaska, that's US).
I don't think they're ready for a so incredible situation. Small groups would definitely break through isolated parts of the border, while the great mass of fear-crazy possibly infected citizen would try to pass through normal gateways - only to find Canadian army reinforcements.

Hey, I like this discussion. It's a very very crazy problem, that makes you think to the limit. It's an hard problem-solving quest this one! :D Thanks Luke!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Permit me to answer with another question.<br />
Do you think the state of Canada has an emergency plan in the case of zombies invasion from the south?<br />
The question here is not &#8220;How would everybody survive&#8221;, but &#8220;How would YOU survive - what&#8217;s your plan&#8221;. I don&#8217;t think a lot of even northen americans would think to go even norther (is &#8220;norther&#8221; a word?? <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt="P" class="wp-smiley" />  ), and anyway if they would I don&#8217;t think Canadian borders are ready to contain an invasion from the south of this dimension. They would have to mobilize the entire army, and this requires days. Even so, the border between US and Canada is incredibly - I mean, really, it&#8217;s very difficult to understand how much it&#8217;s - LONG. I don&#8217;t think you would have any problem in breaking the fences in an isolated place.<br />
US have a very strong policy about immigration and emigration, so I bet their border controls are oversized for normal traffic. But Canadians have not this concern: from the south, there&#8217;s US doing controls, and east, west and north there&#8217;s ocean (and alaska, that&#8217;s US).<br />
I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re ready for a so incredible situation. Small groups would definitely break through isolated parts of the border, while the great mass of fear-crazy possibly infected citizen would try to pass through normal gateways - only to find Canadian army reinforcements.</p>
<p>Hey, I like this discussion. It&#8217;s a very very crazy problem, that makes you think to the limit. It&#8217;s an hard problem-solving quest this one! <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="D" class="wp-smiley" />  Thanks Luke!
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		<title>by: Luke Maciak</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10740</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10740</guid>
					<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-10735" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jaba&lt;/a&gt;: Good point. I think someone mentioned moving up north in the comments before you and we all figured this was a good idea. 

Here is a question - would Canada allow hundreds if not thousands of potentially infected refugees stroll through their borders or would they try to stop people from going North?

I assume that if the Zombie plague reached them at the same time as US then they probably wouldn't care either way - there'd be to much chaos to do anything. But, if the outbreak starts in US, in the middle of the summer and people start fleeing North they could potentially seal off border crossings and station their army all along the border stop the zombies and/or potentially infected people from getting in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-10735" rel="nofollow">Jaba</a>: Good point. I think someone mentioned moving up north in the comments before you and we all figured this was a good idea. </p>
<p>Here is a question - would Canada allow hundreds if not thousands of potentially infected refugees stroll through their borders or would they try to stop people from going North?</p>
<p>I assume that if the Zombie plague reached them at the same time as US then they probably wouldn&#8217;t care either way - there&#8217;d be to much chaos to do anything. But, if the outbreak starts in US, in the middle of the summer and people start fleeing North they could potentially seal off border crossings and station their army all along the border stop the zombies and/or potentially infected people from getting in.
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		<title>by: Jaba</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10735</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10735</guid>
					<description>About the "locals", I subtended the key point: they ARE clean, just because zombies can't physically reach them. And they know from long ages how to survive to their land. You would end to have an entire NATION of stocks + munition + ... just PEOPLE :D

Human race will not extingue without a treat that can follow humans - and the only reachable place not colonized by humans are the abysses :D

BEWARE ZOMBIES! SWEDISH AND CANADIAN ARMY WILL FREAK YOU OUT!! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the &#8220;locals&#8221;, I subtended the key point: they ARE clean, just because zombies can&#8217;t physically reach them. And they know from long ages how to survive to their land. You would end to have an entire NATION of stocks + munition + &#8230; just PEOPLE <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="D" class="wp-smiley" /> </p>
<p>Human race will not extingue without a treat that can follow humans - and the only reachable place not colonized by humans are the abysses <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="D" class="wp-smiley" /> </p>
<p>BEWARE ZOMBIES! SWEDISH AND CANADIAN ARMY WILL FREAK YOU OUT!! <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="D" class="wp-smiley" />
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		<title>by: Jaba</title>
		<link>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10734</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/04/30/zombie-survival-plan/#comment-10734</guid>
					<description>Hey guys, my 2 cents.

Zombies have physical limitations. But, they don't have mind.
They can be the best predators on Earth (and I don't think so), but they are just predators.

If you fear lions, you stay away from Africa. If you fear penguins, stay away from south pole. If you fear sharks, stick yourself to the sole.
I say if you fear zombies, I hope you don't fear penguins too. Because without protections, and without warming abilities, they would be as dangerous as frozen trees.

I think Canada would be enough for you. But northen US or Europe states would anyway do the trick in just one year: even if the preserve their non-life under refrigeration, it would suffice a couple "hunt your zombie day", say in December, to almost do the trick - and I don't think the zombie traffic would be enough to refill, they seems to be pretty stationary.

Any question about surviving in permafrost lands? Just ask the locals ;) 

What do you think about that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys, my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Zombies have physical limitations. But, they don&#8217;t have mind.<br />
They can be the best predators on Earth (and I don&#8217;t think so), but they are just predators.</p>
<p>If you fear lions, you stay away from Africa. If you fear penguins, stay away from south pole. If you fear sharks, stick yourself to the sole.<br />
I say if you fear zombies, I hope you don&#8217;t fear penguins too. Because without protections, and without warming abilities, they would be as dangerous as frozen trees.</p>
<p>I think Canada would be enough for you. But northen US or Europe states would anyway do the trick in just one year: even if the preserve their non-life under refrigeration, it would suffice a couple &#8220;hunt your zombie day&#8221;, say in December, to almost do the trick - and I don&#8217;t think the zombie traffic would be enough to refill, they seems to be pretty stationary.</p>
<p>Any question about surviving in permafrost lands? Just ask the locals <img src="http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=")" class="wp-smiley" />  </p>
<p>What do you think about that?
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