Comments on: Vi Keybindings for Eclipse? http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/ Utterly random, incoherent and disjointed rants and ramblings... Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:11:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5 by: Ken Collins http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-9485 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:49:35 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-9485 I've been using viPlugin since the beginning, when it was open source, and my only complaint is that Michael doesn't update it very often. If it was open source, someone with more time could take it over and continue adding features. I contributed back when I had the chance. I’ve been using viPlugin since the beginning, when it was open source, and my only complaint is that Michael doesn’t update it very often. If it was open source, someone with more time could take it over and continue adding features. I contributed back when I had the chance.

]]> by: Nick Piepmeier http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-9477 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:58:49 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-9477 Ironically enough, it was the rant on this site (or rather, Michael's rebuttal thereof) that made me decide to put down the cash for this plugin. That exchange rate's getting a bit rough though... Ironically enough, it was the rant on this site (or rather, Michael’s rebuttal thereof) that made me decide to put down the cash for this plugin.

That exchange rate’s getting a bit rough though…

]]> by: Chris Beams http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-8719 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:01:04 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-8719 I love telling fellow developers that ViPlugin is "the best 15 euro I ever spent". I've used it for years now, and Michael (the author) has always been responsive and friendly. The amount of satisfaction, pleasure and productivity I've gotten from the product far outweighs the paltry amount I paid. Furthermore, it delights me to no end to think that in doing so, I've helped support an independent developer doing what he loves AND making money at it. P.S.: @Elias - viPlugin does indeed support ctrl-u / ctrl-d. Simply enable the ViPlugin scheme in Preferences->General->Keys. I love telling fellow developers that ViPlugin is “the best 15 euro I ever spent”. I’ve used it for years now, and Michael (the author) has always been responsive and friendly.

The amount of satisfaction, pleasure and productivity I’ve gotten from the product far outweighs the paltry amount I paid. Furthermore, it delights me to no end to think that in doing so, I’ve helped support an independent developer doing what he loves AND making money at it.

P.S.: @Elias - viPlugin does indeed support ctrl-u / ctrl-d. Simply enable the ViPlugin scheme in Preferences->General->Keys.

]]> by: Michael Bartl http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7750 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:33:13 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7750 Hi again, Thank you very much for the clarification, altough I had no hard feelings anyway :-) I think I was just in the mood to tell the people that I'm not that bad a guy at all (at least I hope). I don't believe that this blog scared off some customers, their probably scared enough by the nag-screen. It's time to think about a solution to this problem. At first I wanted a 30-days-no-restrictions solution anyway, but didn't know how to implement it elegantly. I will have another look at that now - blogging can change the world ;-)! Have fun, Michael Hi again,

Thank you very much for the clarification, altough I had no hard feelings anyway -) I think I was just in the mood to tell the people that I’m not that bad a guy at all (at least I hope).

I don’t believe that this blog scared off some customers, their probably scared enough by the nag-screen. It’s time to think about a solution to this problem. At first I wanted a 30-days-no-restrictions solution anyway, but didn’t know how to implement it elegantly. I will have another look at that now - blogging can change the world -) !

Have fun,
Michael

]]> by: Luke Maciak http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7749 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:11:42 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7749 <strong>@Michael</strong> - thanks for stopping by! As you can see quite a few people in this thread do use your plugin and find it worth the price. Don't feel that you need to defend your choice to charge for your work just because an old open source curmudgeon was annoyed at it at the time. I'm thrilled you can make money of this and I'm glad you are thinking about removing the nag-screen. :) Anyways, don't pay attention to my rant. At the time I wrote this I was probably in a bad mood to begin with and looked at few dozen similar but free products, neither of which matched yours in functionality and somehow got myself touting the "proprietary is evil" rant. :P I'm not sure how I went from - "neat idea, but at $20 I think I'll pass" to "OMG, this is such a ripofff!" lol Sorry if I scared some of your potential customers, and I hope there is no hard feelings. @Michael - thanks for stopping by! As you can see quite a few people in this thread do use your plugin and find it worth the price. Don’t feel that you need to defend your choice to charge for your work just because an old open source curmudgeon was annoyed at it at the time.

I’m thrilled you can make money of this and I’m glad you are thinking about removing the nag-screen. )

Anyways, don’t pay attention to my rant. At the time I wrote this I was probably in a bad mood to begin with and looked at few dozen similar but free products, neither of which matched yours in functionality and somehow got myself touting the “proprietary is evil” rant. P

I’m not sure how I went from - “neat idea, but at $20 I think I’ll pass” to “OMG, this is such a ripofff!” lol Sorry if I scared some of your potential customers, and I hope there is no hard feelings.

]]> by: Michael Bartl http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7745 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:40:18 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7745 Hi all, I'm the developer of viPlugin and wanted to add something to this conversation ;-) - I've worked on the plugin for more than 3 years in my free time now. This is a lot of free time and when I had financial troubles I took the opportunity and made viPlugin a commercial product. - On occasions I've given the plugin away for free, to developers that couldn't afford it. This was mainly around X-mas every year. I've reduced the price not long ago to celebrate the birth of my daughter. Calling me greedy is a bit harsh :-) - The nag screen is only there because I'm really bad when it comes to security. I just don't have a clue how to protect it so this was my first idea and it turned out to be a bad one. I wanted to make it 30 day useable without restrictions, but never came around to do it. Perhaps I should give it a try... - The original price was 15 Euro (was 15 Dollar) but the exchange rate Euro - Dollar got bad for the Dollar. Don't blame me for that! - I too think that I owe the open source community. You can find my name mentioned in some open source projects like FreeLords, KDE, Python, ... I think I do my share of giving back! Have fun, Michael Hi all,

I’m the developer of viPlugin and wanted to add something to this conversation -)

- I’ve worked on the plugin for more than 3 years in my free time now. This is a lot of free time and when I had financial troubles I took the opportunity and made viPlugin a commercial product.

- On occasions I’ve given the plugin away for free, to developers that couldn’t afford it. This was mainly around X-mas every year. I’ve reduced the price not long ago to celebrate the birth of my daughter. Calling me greedy is a bit harsh -)

- The nag screen is only there because I’m really bad when it comes to security. I just don’t have a clue how to protect it so this was my first idea and it turned out to be a bad one. I wanted to make it 30 day useable without restrictions, but never came around to do it. Perhaps I should give it a try…

- The original price was 15 Euro (was 15 Dollar) but the exchange rate Euro - Dollar got bad for the Dollar. Don’t blame me for that!

- I too think that I owe the open source community. You can find my name mentioned in some open source projects like FreeLords, KDE, Python, … I think I do my share of giving back!

Have fun,
Michael

]]> by: Steve http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7719 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:55:47 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7719 Here's a test I just came up with to see if viPlugin is worth the cost to you. Given the line: if (condition) { part1; part2; } Let's say the cursor is on the "i" of the "if" and your task is to replace the "{ part1; part2; }" with "funct1();". How would you do it in vi without the mouse? If your answer is to press right arrow a bunch of times, followed by "x" a bunch more times, then I think viPlugin would be a waste of money. However, if your answer is "f{cf}funct1();" and you would do that almost without thinking in under a second without taking your eyes off the screen, then you would definitely benefit from a good vi emulator. Sorry if I'm dragging this conversation out longer than it deserves. I'm really not on viPlugin's payroll, honest! I'll stop now. :-) Here’s a test I just came up with to see if viPlugin is worth the cost to you. Given the line:

if (condition) { part1; part2; }

Let’s say the cursor is on the “i” of the “if” and your task is to replace the “{ part1; part2; }” with “funct1();”. How would you do it in vi without the mouse?

If your answer is to press right arrow a bunch of times, followed by “x” a bunch more times, then I think viPlugin would be a waste of money.

However, if your answer is “f{cf}funct1();” and you would do that almost without thinking in under a second without taking your eyes off the screen, then you would definitely benefit from a good vi emulator.

Sorry if I’m dragging this conversation out longer than it deserves. I’m really not on viPlugin’s payroll, honest! I’ll stop now. -)

]]> by: Steve http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7717 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:33:28 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7717 Elias, it's strange, I didn't find the nag dialog nearly as annoying as you guys did. Like you, I would have much preferred that it be open source, or at least tip-ware (I probably would have donated more than $20). But given the model he chose I guess I felt that I was able to effectively evaluate it, which basically meant making sure it performed the subset of vim functions that I use all the time. I already knew that a reasonable vi emulator would improve my productivity, so I just needed to know it was reasonable. However, now that you emphasize it, I can see the point that the 30-second nag can completely disrupt an evaluation if the point of the evaluation is to see *IF* the plugin would in fact improve your productivity. Just when you get on a roll of editing, up pops the stupid nag, ruining your train of thought, sending your editing productivity into the toilet. So not only is a 30-second nag an annoying and somewhat insulting choice, it's actually a bad business choice. Now that I'm a paid-up customer, maybe I'll suggest that he change it to a 30 minute nag. Elias, it’s strange, I didn’t find the nag dialog nearly as annoying as you guys did. Like you, I would have much preferred that it be open source, or at least tip-ware (I probably would have donated more than $20). But given the model he chose I guess I felt that I was able to effectively evaluate it, which basically meant making sure it performed the subset of vim functions that I use all the time. I already knew that a reasonable vi emulator would improve my productivity, so I just needed to know it was reasonable.

However, now that you emphasize it, I can see the point that the 30-second nag can completely disrupt an evaluation if the point of the evaluation is to see *IF* the plugin would in fact improve your productivity. Just when you get on a roll of editing, up pops the stupid nag, ruining your train of thought, sending your editing productivity into the toilet.

So not only is a 30-second nag an annoying and somewhat insulting choice, it’s actually a bad business choice. Now that I’m a paid-up customer, maybe I’ll suggest that he change it to a 30 minute nag.

]]> by: Elias Pipping http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7701 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:19:15 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7701 I was pretty mad at that plugin over its don't-try-to-persuade-the-customer-this-is-a-good-deal-but-get-on-his-nerves-till-he-gives-in attitude back when I wrote that comment. I might have been a little harsh, and -- if you say so -- even wrong, in which case I apologize. I was pretty mad at that plugin over its don’t-try-to-persuade-the-customer-this-is-a-good-deal-but-get-on-his- nerves-till-he-gives-in attitude back when I wrote that comment. I might have been a little harsh, and — if you say so — even wrong, in which case I apologize.

]]> by: Luke Maciak http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7700 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:13:52 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/05/31/vi-keybindings-for-eclipse/#comment-7700 <strong>@Steve</strong> - You do make a very good point. I guess being a staunch open source enthusiast and an idealist I sometimes find it hard to look at proprietary software and not consider it a ripoff. :P For me the plugin was more of a novelty factor - something nice to have, but not absolutely essential and so not really worth $20. But you are right, it's really not a lot of money if you think about it and it might be worth if you factor in the productivity gain. Thanks for the alternative point of view. :) @Steve - You do make a very good point. I guess being a staunch open source enthusiast and an idealist I sometimes find it hard to look at proprietary software and not consider it a ripoff. P

For me the plugin was more of a novelty factor - something nice to have, but not absolutely essential and so not really worth $20. But you are right, it’s really not a lot of money if you think about it and it might be worth if you factor in the productivity gain. Thanks for the alternative point of view. )

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