Comments on: You Should have a UPS http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/ Utterly random, incoherent and disjointed rants and ramblings... Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:15:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5 by: Luke Maciak http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6947 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:22:43 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6947 Well, the $40 APC UPS with 5-10 minute capacity is still heavier than my laptop. I guess the problem here is both voltage and capacity. When I look at my Lithum Ion laptop battery I can see it is rated for 14.8V output and has the capacity of 66Whr. Most UPS's deliver 120V (same as your power socket) and much higher capacity. Anyone cares to do the math here considering that your average latpop consumes 2-50 Watt, while average desktop uses upwards of 200? I'm guessing that on average you will need a bit more than your average laptop battery to run your desktop at full capacity even for few minutes. Oh, putting a battery on the PSU will increase it's cost, weight and size and production cost making it less likely to sell. Not mentioning that these things eventually do run out of juice and need to be replaced which can become a big headache for the customer. I don't know - it's a good idea, but I'm thinking that if there was an easy, and profitable way to do this, someone would be selling a model that does just that already. Well, the $40 APC UPS with 5-10 minute capacity is still heavier than my laptop. I guess the problem here is both voltage and capacity.

When I look at my Lithum Ion laptop battery I can see it is rated for 14.8V output and has the capacity of 66Whr. Most UPS’s deliver 120V (same as your power socket) and much higher capacity. Anyone cares to do the math here considering that your average latpop consumes 2-50 Watt, while average desktop uses upwards of 200?

I’m guessing that on average you will need a bit more than your average laptop battery to run your desktop at full capacity even for few minutes.

Oh, putting a battery on the PSU will increase it’s cost, weight and size and production cost making it less likely to sell. Not mentioning that these things eventually do run out of juice and need to be replaced which can become a big headache for the customer.

I don’t know - it’s a good idea, but I’m thinking that if there was an easy, and profitable way to do this, someone would be selling a model that does just that already.

]]> by: jambarama http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6945 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:22:48 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6945 I don't think I was very clear in my proposal, sorry. I'm not suggesting integrating an entire UPS into the PSU, just a small battery - like a laptop. Laptop batteries aren't terribly heavy. Of course a desktop pulls a lot more power than a laptop, but I don't think there is a need for 1 hour of battery life, 10 minutes should do. That way you could use a smaller battery than a normal laptop has - that can't be too heavy. Some heavy duty capacitors might do the job too, but I imagine those would be more expensive. I don’t think I was very clear in my proposal, sorry. I’m not suggesting integrating an entire UPS into the PSU, just a small battery - like a laptop. Laptop batteries aren’t terribly heavy. Of course a desktop pulls a lot more power than a laptop, but I don’t think there is a need for 1 hour of battery life, 10 minutes should do. That way you could use a smaller battery than a normal laptop has - that can’t be too heavy. Some heavy duty capacitors might do the job too, but I imagine those would be more expensive.

]]> by: Miloš http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6926 Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:59:05 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6926 UPS is a must. When it comes to APC I have been dealing with them for years and overall it was a great experience. They were always on top of their things except last year when they sent me two new UPS' with dead batteries, but they were quickly replaced. UPS is a must. When it comes to APC I have been dealing with them for years and overall it was a great experience. They were always on top of their things except last year when they sent me two new UPS’ with dead batteries, but they were quickly replaced.

]]> by: Peter Bromberg http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6925 Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:00:15 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6925 Amen! We've had a UPS on our office server for years, but it wasn't until a few months ago that it occurred to me to get one for every desktop in the office. I also installed the extra software that will close all programs and properly shut down the pc when the battery gets low (for those longer power outages that occasionally happen over the weekend.) So inexpensive, so useful! Amen! We’ve had a UPS on our office server for years, but it wasn’t until a few months ago that it occurred to me to get one for every desktop in the office. I also installed the extra software that will close all programs and properly shut down the pc when the battery gets low (for those longer power outages that occasionally happen over the weekend.) So inexpensive, so useful!

]]> by: Luke Maciak http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6907 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:37:57 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6907 Our servers here at work are on APC UPS's. I never had any issues with them save for some driver issues. They are pretty solid company. Our servers here at work are on APC UPS’s. I never had any issues with them save for some driver issues. They are pretty solid company.

]]> by: mcmcom http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6902 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:32:56 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6902 i must post a quick update. This morning when i came into work, guess what was waiting for me? A new UPS Battery from APC. They express shipped it up for me from Jersey to Toronto in like 12 hours. Amazing. So my UPS Is back, but still working on the one server - rebuilding it from scratch. Oh well, it was due for it. mcm i must post a quick update.

This morning when i came into work, guess what was waiting for me? A new UPS Battery from APC. They express shipped it up for me from Jersey to Toronto in like 12 hours. Amazing.

So my UPS Is back, but still working on the one server - rebuilding it from scratch.

Oh well, it was due for it.

mcm

]]> by: Luke Maciak http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6894 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 05:55:38 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6894 Oh man, what are the odds. I mean it sucks that it happened, but it's kinda funny that it happened now. :) Good luck fixing it all up! Oh man, what are the odds. I mean it sucks that it happened, but it’s kinda funny that it happened now. )

Good luck fixing it all up!

]]> by: mcmcom http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6893 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 03:48:16 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6893 Luke, Love the article. BUT... I found it quite IRONIC that today of all days i came into work to find this: My 13 month old APC SMART UPS' battery completely blown. 3 servers off (not restarted, but off.) Our SVN Server - Both SATA hds were screwed. One so bad its unfixable. The other had several errors on it but the data was salvagable. Also note this UPS has cables from it and special software to monitor each computer. It was suposed to notify me when something like this happens! Think it did? hardly. not only did it NOT do what i configured it too, but it actually prevented the servers from restarting (which i thought was a bit strange). We think it was a power surge so the ups probably did end up protecting the other two servers and the battery is still under warranty so it didn't end up being too bad - but the fact that tonight i have one server in pieces on my desk, and two servers plugged directly into a wall socket and i read this title ... "You Should have a UPS” hilarious. Luke, Love the article.

BUT…

I found it quite IRONIC that today of all days i came into work to find this:
My 13 month old APC SMART UPS’ battery completely blown.
3 servers off (not restarted, but off.)
Our SVN Server - Both SATA hds were screwed. One so bad its unfixable. The other had several errors on it but the data was salvagable.

Also note this UPS has cables from it and special software to monitor each computer. It was suposed to notify me when something like this happens!
Think it did? hardly. not only did it NOT do what i configured it too, but it actually prevented the servers from restarting (which i thought was a bit strange).

We think it was a power surge so the ups probably did end up protecting the other two servers and the battery is still under warranty so it didn’t end up being too bad - but the fact that tonight i have one server in pieces on my desk, and two servers plugged directly into a wall socket and i read this title … “You Should have a UPS”

hilarious.

]]> by: Luke Maciak http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6892 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 03:41:49 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6892 <strong>@jambarama</strong> - Fr3d is right, these things weigh a ton. The $45 cheepo UPS with 4 outlets that is rated for 5-10 minutes actually weighs more than the PC itself. Granted, the PC was a Dell Dimension with a plastic case, but still. Laptops can get away using the light Lithium-Ion batteries because their hardware is designed to work with low voltages. <strong>@ZeWresteler</strong> - I never lost a mobo to a power outage but good point. That is a real danger. @jambarama - Fr3d is right, these things weigh a ton. The $45 cheepo UPS with 4 outlets that is rated for 5-10 minutes actually weighs more than the PC itself. Granted, the PC was a Dell Dimension with a plastic case, but still.

Laptops can get away using the light Lithium-Ion batteries because their hardware is designed to work with low voltages.

@ZeWresteler - I never lost a mobo to a power outage but good point. That is a real danger.

]]> by: Fr3d http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6883 Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:02:25 +0000 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2007/11/07/you-should-have-a-ups/#comment-6883 @jambarama: Nice idea in principle, but incorporating a UPS into a PSU wouldn't be a good idea, as it would make the PSU much larger, much heavier (as the battery would need to be pretty big to power even a modest computer for even a few minutes), and act as yet another point of [potential] failure. However, most modern, high-end PSUs do have a very small amount of capacitance that can handle some brown-outs, but this is not enough for a large brown-put or a total black-out. Modern UPSs, even the cheap ones, usually come with a USB port, cable and software (and most older ones have serial ports) which can tell the PC to shutdown/standby/hibernate when it loses power. And since they almost always have multiple power outputs, they can power your monitor and/or router/switch too. Hopefully you'll now see why UPSs are stand-alone units, and not incorporated into other systems ;) @jambarama: Nice idea in principle, but incorporating a UPS into a PSU wouldn’t be a good idea, as it would make the PSU much larger, much heavier (as the battery would need to be pretty big to power even a modest computer for even a few minutes), and act as yet another point of [potential] failure.

However, most modern, high-end PSUs do have a very small amount of capacitance that can handle some brown-outs, but this is not enough for a large brown-put or a total black-out.

Modern UPSs, even the cheap ones, usually come with a USB port, cable and software (and most older ones have serial ports) which can tell the PC to shutdown/standby/hibernate when it loses power. And since they almost always have multiple power outputs, they can power your monitor and/or router/switch too.

Hopefully you’ll now see why UPSs are stand-alone units, and not incorporated into other systems )

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