I get radiant quests. They have their place. Radiant quests are good for gamers who want to level up indefinitely. That’s fine. But I prefer to ignore them. I like stories. I like unique quests. Sadly Bethesda seems to think that padding out games with “radiant quests” is somehow acceptable. Fallout 4 is the main offender in this downward trend that Bethesda has embarked upon.

“Radiant” quests have their place, but let’s all recognize them for what they actually are: repetitive bullsh!t. “Radiant” is just a clever name for a lazy insult to gamers and people are just lapping it up because either they don’t value stories of because they just wanna shoot, loot and build forever and ever and ever.
Sure, have them there for gamers who want them, but FO4 heavily padded out their game with this lazy p!ss-take that is only there to save on writing costs and effort in implementation.

https://www.change.org/p/todd-howard-bethesda-overhaul-fo4-quests-less -radiant-more-original

sign and share if you don’t want future Bethesda games to become more and more procedurally generated.

@ Luke Maciak:

Well, I agree, that well at least for me, Oblivion, had a more immersive story, and faction missions, it felt different with each faction, Morrowind had more that Oblivion, Oblivion had more than Skyrim. But the thing is in skyrim’s defense, the bar of quality in gaming industry is rising, and well a popular game studio like bethesda are expected, to provide a quality product, by users and probably by publishers, that means, better graphics, more details, more voice acting more of this more of that, given the console limitation and time constraints, the game get’s smaller, though still good, but smaller, I bet it was much easier to make Morrowind than Skyrim, in morrowind there weren’t so many little details, it was quite plain(visually), because of that time computers, and technology, there was no voice acting, the publisher probably weren’t pushing hard, there weren’t many big expectations to live up to, it was more about the world and the story. Nowaday all is more important…

The original quests are better, but it still beats the other elder scroll games in one area. In the other games, once you finished all the quests, you are left with nothing left to do except wander, which gets boring after a while. But in Skyrim, this at least keeps the game from coming to a dead stop!

‘The game is positively tiny’ ?
My first run through totalled 176 hours and I did very little of the repeat radiant quests. After 176 hours I did not have any more I wanted to do – but why the heck would I expect to be able to after 176 hours? In my book that is not a tiny game.
And when I finished my first run through I started immediately over again with a different character build which I will play all the way to the end again.
I like the change in Skyrim that elements of the enemies scale up but only to a point such that you can get to a stage where you can be all superior (I currently have max magic resistance (85%) no magic expenditure for destruction spells, and full dragon light armour – love it (double enchantments)).
No, Skyrim isn’t perfect, but I like it more than almost anything else. Oblivion, incidentally, was my most enjoyed video game I’d ever played (and I’ve been playing them since the days of the ZX Spectrum).

@ Luke Maciak:
You can turn of the quest arrows in the settings.

I feel like a spoiled brat wondering wft I’m really missing. Actually the feeling is so strong that I had to start to install heavily modded Morrowind (+ buy some paper and a pen) to try to learn more. I guess I’m a bit of a RPG freak but I come from simpler console games to the PC role playing world so that makes things (= Preferences) a bit different.

Let me elaborate. Like a commenter above, I have played Oblivion a lot, probably too much just loitering outdoors and starting it over just to smell the coffee – never of course finishing it in any meaningful (storyline driven) way and modding the shite out of it. I know it’s superficial, but I did fear Skyrim would really _feel_ smaller, less epic and less athmospheric.

Boy I was wrong. I’m still totally sold by the overall feel of the game and still feel little sympathy for nitpicking on total size of content. Former games (just as Skyrim) seemed to reward different players by a wide margin but modding culture made the gamers closer to each other, even if the core game would be quite similar. But I believe have learned something from the armies of Morrowind fans: my preferences in TES enjoyment could be more refined and mature. Not just because the perceived awe of the experiences of others, but the refinement level of the genre in total. I hope someone understands my point.

For me, in Oblivion and definitely Skyrim, _content_ pretty much balances between finding some (just enough) variety, meaning, grinding potential and food for imagination to not let the game feel “finished”. In Oblivion, there was a sense of achievement when a bag of dungeons was cleared. In Skyrim, former dungeons that are marked on the map as *cleared* may have filled again and (for me) make each and every game session a bit more interesting. I don’t care if it’s a bit stupid (like seeing scripted/non-scripted fights take over of not take over in various locations), I simply feel like I’ve seen something surprising and not just ran doing and encountering nothing. I guess I don’t like my game too refined either – as I play Skyrim I at the moment also grind Sega Saturn 1997 dungeon bash Shining The Holy Ark and feel about as content.

Yes, I did not see any point in some missions in Skyrim, like forging the bills of various merchants and seeing (about) 321 mission darts in game map feels like the game wants me to work my ass of so hard I need a pension and retire before time (to the game world of course).

I like being a completionist. I also like grinding to a certain extent. I also see that huge sandbox style games are a bit of a nightmare to review as a whole, since possible (realistic) playing styles are quite different. All in all Bethesda seems (to me) have succeeded in Radiant system, though I’m not too sure if it’s seemless enough or not or really that refreshing to play again. Only time will tell. As a action (somewhat) grinder Skyrim feels the best of the bunch though – dwelling in outdoors and getting pelts fells like hunting, the system rewards for experimentation and deliberate weakening of the character and there seems to be elements of surprise just enough. Let’s see I feel the same after two years or so. ^^

I have noticed a few radiant quests here and there. Mostly the dark brotherhood as you mentioned above. Personally, I don’t like it and wish they focused on making all the main quests more fulfilling. It really feels like they just quickly threw a bunch of meaningless quests together with no sense of accomplishment when you complete them. Most of the rewards are useless items that you could make yourself if not better. I have completed all the guild quests/main story quests and I’m rather disappointed with them. Personally, I think they could have done a much better job in this area.

I don’t think i could agree with you more, Eon.
I never had the chance to play Morrowind unfortunately, I found Oblivion in my brothers room at the start of one Summer and practically ignored my friends for a few months. Seeing as i’d only ever play CoD and the odd racing game, this ‘open-world’ stuff was fantastic, like a drug.
I played Oblvion through (In my own way) as a Redguard, Bosmer, Dunmer, and Breton, always with a set style, yet I somehow never got bored…
I fully accepted the leveling system was damned stupid, and the main skills completely counter productive (Achieve powerful leveling by choosing the skills you dont want to use as your main ones) and the way i had to Repeatedly cast Minor Respite to level up in Restoration, but it was so godamn fun i didn’t care.
The dark brotherhood? Absolutely fantastic…
Mages guild? Riveting.
Arena? Mindless killing.
This game, to me, had no challenger.

Then along came Skyrim, and i was shocked.
Like he said, I couldn’t make my mind up who to side with (kind alike Bioshock? Save or slaughter the Little sisters???)
I was ecstatic that the leveling system was fixed, i feel like im getting stronger…
Until a bloody blood dragon shows up…
The perk system is brilliant.
I’m worried that everyone says the quest lines are short, but i cant notice, because everytime i try to do a quest, i start clearing out this cave, this grotto, this whatever.
Havn’t had that level of fun in just randomely playing since GTA civilian killing sprees.

To all those worrying about the length of the game?
Like he said. Get distracted. It works.

Wow. I’ve been a hardcore ES fan since Morrowind, and I’ve even played a bit of Daggerfall, and frankly I couldn’t disagree with you more. I love Morrowind. I spent at least three hundred hours playing it and quite possibly three times that amount. I love the backstory, the freedom, the… everything, really. In fact, if I had the time, I would make an argument for a heavily modded Morrowind being quite possibly the best of the Elder Scrolls Games.

Next was Oblivion. They trimmed down the factions to next to nothing, took what could have been an amazing main quest and made it boring as hell, created a fantastically flawed leveling system, and replaced Morrowind’s complex culture with the bland vanilla fantasy of Cyrodiil. But hey, they made the combat significantly better (not great, mind you, but a hell of a lot better than clicking as fast as I can while yawning), came up with some cool ideas for AI, and most importantly, came up with quests that beat anything in Morrowind. Oblivion was lacking in quests, absolutely, but in terms quality, name one quest that even remotely rivals that Dark Brotherhood quest where you’re locked up in a house and have to murder all the guests while pretending to be one. Morrowind was great in many ways, but its quests were largely deliver this item, clear this dungeon, visit these locations. There’s still a fair amount of that in Oblivion, but Bethesda finally started making things interesting on the quest front, and for that I am by no means willing to consider Oblivion a bad game.

And then we have Skyrim. One thing I hated about Oblivion was the lack of moral ambiguity and depth compared to Morrowind, but right from the freaking tutorial Skyrim delivers both in spades. I genuinely didn’t know who to side with, something that never happened in Morrowind. Besides, between the Soviet-esque Aldmeri Dominion, the fascinating story details found nearly everywhere, and the welcome return of real racial tension, I find myself just basking in the world. One of the best parts of the game for me has just been reading all the new books.

On the character creation front, my only real criticism is the lack of varied hair styles. The skill system is simply marvelous; no more must I slave away at casting alteration spells on myself over and over again just so I can get a +5 multiplier to willpower. Now I can actually enjoy the game instead of feeling obligated to grind and grind and grind. And hey, if you like that, great, but I care much more about story immersiveness than how much of a spreadsheet my character page is.

As to being a small world, you’re just… wrong. So amazingly wrong. A lot of Morrowind people besides myself claim this, but that’s mostly because of Morrowind’s painfully slow walking speed. If you add a mod called Nymeria’s Faster Walking or something like that to the game, you’ll realize how small Morrowind is when you can actually move at a reasonable pace, and this mod only increases moving speed by ten percent. Besides, I’ve spent hours traveling on foot. If you want bigger distances than that, I recommend you take up hiking in real life.

I do admit that I am also disappointed by the shortness of the quest sizes. However, I keep getting so distracted by all of the other wonderful features in the game that I don’t honestly care. Perhaps if I just tried grinding through the College of Winterhold it would be a different story, but I keep getting distracted by other side quests, so by the time I do actually finish a questline (and I am quite pleased to say that I have not–the only reason I know how short the quest lines are is from the table of contents to a FAQ I read some time ago–naturally, however, I did avoid any spoilers beyond the specific question I had), I imagine I’ll still feel accomplished simply by nature of how much time has passed since I started each one. After all, I got it the day it came out and I’ve yet to get beyond the Thalmor embassy part of the main quest. Being distracted is simply wonderful. I heartily recommend you try it.

To (finally) get on topic, though, I agree with the your general criticism (praise included) of the radiant story system. The entire reason I came here actually was because I just ran into a bug involving it.

Oh, and two last thoughts. First, the genuinely varied combat styles plus the interactiveness of the environment in any given battle is a wonderful improvement over Morrowind. Second, I do wish they’d stop holding my hand for all the quests. A return to Morrowind’s lack of a arrows and compasses would be a welcome change.

@ Albert W.:

I too have sunk close to 100 hours into Skyrim so far, and I’m not done with it yet. It is a good game. I would say it is probably the best game I have played this year. I spent more time, and had more fun with it than with Deus Ex or Arkham Asylum for example. I is very entertaining, and I am having a blast.

Morrowind looks and feels very dated by todays standards. Graphics suck, there is almost no voice acting, the mechanics are a bit clunky until you get used to them.

But the setting – Vanderfel is a wondrous island full of bizzare creatures and cultures. The Stilt Striders, the Mushroom villages, the huge city built in a shell of an ancient crustacean, the mystery of Dwemer ruins (Skyrim glances over it, Morrowind explains how they perished), the political prison made out of hollowed meteorite hanging over the capitol city… The main story is absolutely amazing.

It explains how the physical realm is basically a Daedric realm of dead prince Lokharn – how the moons are pieces of his corpse that was torn apart in his struggle. How mortals dug out his heart from the center of the earth and use it to grant themselves divide powers.

Morrowind has living gods who usurped power they were never meant to have. It has mysterious disease that consumes the island and spreads through nightmarish visions. It has lost tribes clinging to ancient religion being the only source of truth about how the living gods were made.

Not to mention that it has more factions than Oblivon and Skyrim put together, and each of them has more quests than above mentioned games have in total. Each faction has 5-6 quest givers with few dozen tasks. When you rise to the top, it really feels like you have earned it. The leaders scoff at you first, then appreciate your work, then admire you, and then eventually step down in awe of your accomplishments.

And you know what’s the best thing? No essential characters and no plot driven doors. Every lock can be picked, and every NPC can be killed. The game does not cuddle you. It lets you do your own thing.

But yes – by today’s standards it is clunky, dated and lacks polish and flair. Still, I maintain it is one of the finest sandbox RPG’s out there – great writing, unprecedented freedom, awesome setting, etc…