Age of Sigmar and the End of Warhammer

As you may know I’m a huge fan of Warhammer Fantasy Battles table top game. I have written about it on more than one occasion and I made a tiny web service allowing you to print custom paper movement trays / proxy sheets. I own not one, not two, but three armies for the game. That’s easily hundreds of dollars worth of miniatures. More if you consider most of my dwarfs are classic Marauder models that have been out of production for over two decades now. I have been playing the game since around 1995. I started with the 4th edition and I am no stranger to the changes in the game mechanics and balance. I endured the 5th edition Hero Hammer power escalation, and the subsequent global nerf and rule reset in the 6th. The most recent 8th edition has turned to be the last one.

RIP Warhammer Fantasy

RIP Warhammer Fantasy, 1983-2015. Never forget.

During the massive and aptly named End Times campaign, Games Workshop officially destroyed the Warhammer Fantasy universe. And no, that’s not a metaphor: the campaign literally ended in gigantic magic battle that resulted in the annihilation of the entire universe. But some gods did some magic stuff, and the universe would be reborn after the cataclysm. Only it would be new and different. This was supposed to allow Games Workshop to shake up the 23 year old setting, add new factions, create new alliances and do some clever re-branding (GW was always upset they could not trademark words like Elf, Dwarf or Empire). The 9th edition of the game was supposed to be all new and all different which was… Intriguing. As much as I bemoaned loss of two decades of lore and world building efforts, I was rather interested to see the brand new setting. Especially since I never used any special characters in my armies. My collection was not strictly bound to the Old World lore, and could be easily ported to the new setting if needed.

Dark Elves

Part of my Dark Elf Army. Still unpainted.

Unfortunately, the 9th edition never came. Instead, Games Workshop released a brand new, skirmish game called Age of Sigmar. The new game looks and plays entirely different from the venerable twenty year old Warhammer Fantasy. For one, it eschews the concept of unit block. In WFB the models used square bases (usually 25mm to the side) so that they could be arranged in ranks and columns. Square or rectangular blocks of roughly 20-60 troops would move together as one entity. You would usually place the entire unit on an appropriately sized movement tray and then slide the trays across the table. The units could perform wheel maneuvers to turn, or reform to change the number of ranks or do an about face. Age of Sigmar threw all of that out. It uses round bases and all models move individually, though units should stay in 1″ cohesion if they are able to.

Games Workshop did provide Age of Sigmar rules for all the Warhammer Fantasy models they currently sell in their online store. That said, all the game mechanics were re-tooled to focus on individual models, and low model count battles. Templates and guess range weapons are gone. All ranges were shortened to support smaller, more spread out armies. For example, Dwarf cannons in the 8th had a maximum effective range of up to about 70″. The same model under Age of Sigmar rules can only shoot 32″ and is vastly less effective.

The game replaces the 8th edition, but it does not seem to be interested in actually being a replacement of any sort. Instead it seems to be positioned to compete with with Privateer Press Warmachine (another low scale, low model count fantasy skirmish game) rather than with Mantic Games Kings of War (which focuses on unit blocks like WFB did). The new starter set has less than 20 models to the side, with powerful heroes being the main focal point of the battles and rank and file troops being just a filler. There is a dedicated Hero Phase in which powerful characters trigger their signature abilities. This is very similar to Warmachine which focuses on powerful Warcasters and their magically powered, clockwork Warjack machines – of which you only ever field a handful. Both games seem to favor small engagements with few powerful models on the table.

Warmachine

This is a legal Warmachine starter army. That’s all the models you need.

But Age of Sigmar can’t hope to compete with Privateer Press product (save maybe on model quality or pricing), because Warmachine is designed from ground up to be a competitive tournament game. It has balancing mechanics that ensure opponents will always play with equally powerful forces. WFB had a similar mechanic. Age of Sigmar has none. The rulebook for the game which is four pages long, and available as a free download from the GW website specifically encourages players to bring any models they want. There are no point costs, no unit size limits, no limits on optional upgrades. The only limit is how much you are willing to spend on the miniatures. The only balancing mechanic is the fact that the player who is outnumbered by 30% gets to pick a victory condition.

But that rule in itself seems inconsistent and easy to abuse, since you compare forces on raw model count, even though models are not equal in power. For example a player fielding 5 of the brand new, vastly overpowered medieval Space Marines accompanied by 3 special characters, each riding a dragon will be outnumbered by someone fielding a single unit of 10 rank and file goblins with no characters. Horde armies such as Skaven or Goblins that in the past relied on superior numbers to offset relatively weak core troops are now punished for fielding large armies. On the other hand players who field few special characters and no troops at all are rewarded.

If you wanted to make a small local tournament in WFB you could put out a flyer or a poster that said something like: “1,500pts, no special characters, no magic items over 50pts” and it would force people to bring balanced, characterful armies built around core units. The players would have to figure out how to build forces of specified size that leveraged the strengths of their chosen army while at the same time minimizing its flaws. They would have to think about unit positioning, protecting their flanks, synergies between units and leaders and etc.. In Age of Sigmar this is no longer possible. Since there is no point costs and no size limits on units, it is impossible to ensure any kind of balance.

Allegedly there exist these top secret, unofficial basic balancing rules released by disgruntled GW game developers through back channels, but even those don’t help much:

To put it simply, Age of Sigmar is not a competitive tournament game. Which would be fine, if that was it’s only flaw. I’m not much of a competitive player myself, and I much prefer casual play with friends than tournament play with strangers. But I do like game balance and structure, as much as I like my ranked up unit blocks and my movement trays. And I would like an option to play a tournament from time to time if I wanted to. Age of Sigmar does not support that. But if GW wanted to make a game that is strictly casual and non-competitive and friendly then so be it. Unfortunately the game is not designed to be either friendly or inviting.

Games Workshop products and lore has always been a tad problematic. Back in the day the Warhammer lore included monsters whose reproductive cycle involved kidnaping and rape. Their sculptors always had issues creating female models without objectifying and sexualizing them. But those were minor problems compared to the new rule set.

Age of Sigmar is a game that throws away the idea of good sportsmanship out the window and encourages players to hurl insults at each other in order to receive mechanical bonuses:

Yep, making the environment hostile, uncomfortable and facilitating abuse and bullying is a codified game mechanic. Abso-fucking-lutely brilliant, GW. good luck marketing this particular warscroll to parents whose children want to get into the war gaming hobby. Especially since the streamlined, simplified, non-competitive rule set definitely skews younger.

There is another rule that encourages players to give and accept bribes in exchange for in-game effects. Because adding a gambling mechanic into a core rule set is a splendid idea that will never actually backfire:

Some rules are simply straight up sexist. Anyone who can’t or simply does not want to grow a mustache can’t use this rule:

I can see this particular rule being used by players to body shame younger boys for not having enough body hair, or young girls for having some fuzz on their upper lip. Because making someone feel like shit about their own body is awesome, and sportsman like, is it not?

Some rules are just plain goofy. Bretonian players for example can get mechanical bonuses for rising a cup into the air, and screaming out a catchphrase:

Others are genuinely mean spirited, encouraging players to straight up mock people who suffer from mental illness:

I get what they were trying to do with these rules. They were trying to encourage players to have “fun” with their games. But you can’t codify fun as a game mechanic. People scream Blood for the blood god! when charging not because they will get a buff, but because its fun, silly and spontaneous thing to do. Codifying it as a mechanic makes it forced and awkward. Doubly so if the game tells you to do something you are not comfortable with: like insulting your friend, or mocking insanity. It is one thing to have a “mad count” type character in the lore, it is a whole other thing to encourage players to “pretend to be a crazy person”. It’s uncalled for, and it ignores the fact many Warhammer players may personally know people who struggle with mental illness, or may have one themselves.

It amazes me that no editor realized that these rules might not only be upsetting, but even damaging to the Games Workshop brand. But that’s sort of my general impression of the entire rule set. It seems to be hastily put together without much oversight. Its like none of these rules were play tested, or focus tested to see how they will perform in the field.

Many people are really excited for this new game. Folks in my Twitter feed and on reddit are already posting pictures of their models on round bases, and writing up first battle reports. Sadly, I don’t share their enthusiasm. Age of Sigmar is not for me. I like the WFB focus on unit blocks and core troops, I like my movement trays, I don’t like powerful hero characters that dominate the battlefield. I like balance and structure, and building armies using a spreadsheet and a calculator. The new rules do nothing for me. They are overly simplistic, and too goofy to be taken seriously. I also don’t feel comfortable playing or endorsing a game which encourages players to insult each other or mock mental illness.

Most of people in my gaming group share these opinions, so we will be sticking to the good old 8th edition. While it isn’t perfect, it is pretty damn good and we enjoy it. It’s sad that it won’t be supported by Games Workshop anymore. This means that it will be more difficult for use to replace damaged rulebooks, and near impossible to convince new players to join the hobby. But the bittersweet takeaway from all of this is that Age of Sigmar means Games Workshop won’t be able to ruin the mostly well balanced and sound 8th edition rule set. We can continue playing the game as it exists right now, without worrying about rule changes, power creep, getting our favorite units nerfed and etc..

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23 Responses to Age of Sigmar and the End of Warhammer

  1. Johnny B UNITED STATES Google Chrome Windows says:

    I agree with all of the above. I guess some people will love the new skirmish game, maybe a good share of the old players from Warhammer Fantasy will jump on the bandwagon. I won’t be one of them. I loved the whole large scale army aspect of WHFB, and for those of us without the time, money, or attention span to play a single large scale game for a few hours, there was Warmachine/Hordes which has a great set of rules and is a well established skirmish game with a wide following. Not sure what people like me are supposed to do now, Warhammer was the king of miniature army wargames and I don’t think anyone else came close as far as the following WHFB had. Warmachine/Hordes is the king of the skirmish games (although there are other good ones out there). I won’t play 40k, after the insanity GW showed with this AoS swing into far left field, I don’t trust them to make a quality game anymore.

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  2. Luke Maciak UNITED STATES Mozilla Firefox Windows Terminalist says:

    @ Johnny B:

    Folks are talking about Mantic Games Kings of War as an alternative now. I don’t know anything about the game other than the fact the focus is on unit combat, and characters are nowhere near as important as in WFB. Which sounds enticing. Sadly the game has neither the following, support or wealth of lore WFB had.

    That said it may change. They are supposedly releasing 2nd edition this month, and the community is more than happy to welcome disgruntled WFB players to the fold. I’ve been told there are equivalent factions for most of the WFB armies, and Mantic has been trying to have unit parity for anything that is not trademarked or Warhammer specific so it is possible to port most of your existing mini collection to the new game without much changes.

    If the KoW community indeed picks up and becomes more vibrant I might be tempted to jump ship in the future. For now I thin we’ll continue playing 8th ed as if nothing happened. We might play a test game or two of KoW at some point in the future. If I do, I will probably blog about it here.

    Also, because AoS I took a close look at Warmachine and I actually really want to play it now. It’s really much more appealing to me than AoS. Like, if I’m gonna play a skirmish game, that’s probably the one I’d pick. I’m really tempted to just plonk down the money on the “Steampunk Eldar” starter set for me, and Cygrnar for my brother and give it a whirl. He wants to play a proxy game first though.

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  4. Timothy (likes zebras) UNITED KINGDOM Google Chrome says:

    I agree with lots of what you write. I really don’t understand what they are thinking, and there doesn’t even seem to be an introductory article on their website that gives the official corporate line.

    Gaming has moved on in the last twenty to thirty years. There are relatively new boardgames and wargames which have interesting ways of making games simple and enjoyable. Just compare something like ticket to ride with monopoly.

    Age of Sigmar is stuck in the old boring paradigm of I go, you go. It’s really disappointing to see them go backwards instead of developing. It speaks of a very poor internal culture that is anti-intellectual, which is in marked contrast to the GW of the past which used to discuss Sun Tzu.

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  5. Luke Maciak UNITED STATES Google Chrome Linux Terminalist says:

    @ Timothy (likes zebras):

    Yeah, GW has been pretty bad at communicating with the community as of late. Back in the day they used to publish editorials by their lead game designers in which they would explain the choices, decisions and their reasoning for designing new armies or new editions in a certain way. I remember reading Gavin Thrope going on about how and why he made changes to the Eldar, and what kind of play styles he was trying to promote. Hell, in the early 90’s WD was a general tabletop & RPG magazine and it printed adventures for D&D and Warhammer Fantasy. Nowadays it’s just a glorified promotional brochure with the sole aim of selling you the latest releases.

    The entire launch of this thing seems to be a confounding mess. The entire thing was developed in an almost complete secrecy. Store owners were getting contradictory messages and were kept in the dark about the nature of the game until the last few days before the release.

    If you look at the rule set and the war-scroll compendiums, you will notice that there are no credits on them. In the past GW always credited their game designers and writers. You can easily look up who has written which army book, codex or rulebook for WFB and 40k. But AoS seems to have no authors: rule set is © Games Workshop and that’s it. So either none of the designers wanted to have their name attached to this thing, or GW just stopped giving a fuck about supporting their own writers and designers. In either case, this is a bad sign.

    All of this would have been so much better if someone at GW stepped up and actually talked to the community and told us why they decided to kill WFB and where they are going with AoS. And maybe put 40k players at ease and tell them there are no plans for “Age of Emperor”… If the Warscroll compendiums had a foreword by the lead designer describing the design concepts for this particular force. Like what they were going for, what they were trying to preserve from WFB, what they wanted to change, and why some minis got cut despite their promise that all store assets will get rules…

    Right now all we have is speculations and lots of fan rage. :(

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  6. Paul "Puzzle" UNITED STATES Google Chrome Windows says:

    WHAT! I was a competitive player back in 6th edition and school so I had to come back into in the 8th edition. I’m in college now and was able to finally to pick up again the 8th edition. I figured they just changed the name or something because of some random reason. Today I wondered whats up with the round bases this makes no sense gonna be difficult to get them all on the trays. So I ended up here. I have an AMAZING High Elf Army that I personally never played with but have been creating it for about 2 years now. I had everything calculated and ready to go with my army. All of these new rules are completely stupid and idiotic. Man and I always loved Fantasy over 40k, but my army doesn’t exist and I can’t even go play with it anymore. I’m so angry and sadden about this whole thing . . . I’m a call a games-workshop place and figure out this whole thing :/

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  7. Rick NEW ZEALAND Google Chrome Windows says:

    So down the tubes it all went !

    For those contemplating a go at KoW, I would say go for it. Mass battles on scenic movement trays, simple rules that may never be mastered. No shortage of models out there, (inc. GW’s) and it is gathering speed down-under.

    RIP GW.

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  8. Dimitri UNITED STATES Google Chrome Windows says:

    Honestly, I think the matter of switching from Fantasy to AoS is due to the fact that 40k is the more popular game. That being said, I think all the data pointed them to making a new game that transforms Fantasy into a a game more similar to 40k skirmish. Sure, probably less competitive, but how much less? I wanted to get back into Fantasy but my local store here in Glendale, CA has players who moved onto AoS. I don’t have anyone else to play with so I am stuck with AoS. Seems fun though.

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  9. ravenboi CANADA Google Chrome Windows says:

    I have been playing WFB since 6th edition. I got out of the game a few years ago as I found that my gaming group at the time was a bit too, how to say this, ass-holish. You felt bad when you lost. You felt bad when you won. Not fun. Also GM’s business model. They just did not seem to give two shits about their fans, and just made every effort to drain you of money. And as for their understanding of the game as mainly a collector hobby rather than a game, there were 7 in our gaming group and only three had armies. The others bought the army books and played, but were boycotting the high miniature prices. So yeah…great understanding of the fans. And brilliant trying to protect ‘your’ intellectual property when you thought of very little of it. And what were you so afraid of anyway? If you made the best ‘orcs’ or ‘elves’ then you would have nothing to fear. But no.

    I had a full Empire army, with almost every unit. I only had a few models painted, but I was working on it. I had intentions of playing it in the future. I decided to check out what was new with WFB. I feel as if a friend of mine just died. A good friend. An old friend. A friend who had fell on hard times for a bit. He began acting out and alienating all of his friends. He developed a drug problem and blamed everyone but himself for his situation. But I still loved him and always hoped he could turn his life around. I have kept my painted models, but actually threw my entire army, army books (5), and entire collection of white dwarf magazine (80?) in the trash. And I’m glad. I feel like I can make a fresh start, and I know that my gaming future will be a fruitful one.

    BTW check out Infinity. Amazing models. Amazing rules. Amazing fluff. A company that cares for their fans. What more could you want?

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  10. Damien Dean AUSTRALIA Google Chrome Mac OS says:

    I’ve dabbled in and out of WFB since 4th Edition,

    Every few years I rekindle the fire and get back into the hobby of painting my beloved orcs and gear up to play a few matches. I was quite impressed with the way they went with 8th and then storm of magic etc. but on the surface I don’t like AOS.

    If i wanted to play a skirmish style game I would have played Nercomunda or Mordheim (2 other failed attempts by GW of entering the skermish style game play.)

    I like WFB because of its fantasy, old worlde style setting. the medieval approach to war with minimal technology and the concept of strategic game play. Like you I enjoy the balance and challenge of creating an army list based on a specific set of parameters and then having to use witts and strategy to field my attack rather than relying on specific characters or over arching dominance.

    I guess they are trying to bridge the gap between WFB and W40K but surely they have accept that not everyone enjoyed W40k. I know I didn’t.

    I also like the square bases for all but character pieces. I like the ability for regiments to nicely stack up on movement plates, and the additional model count acts as a good reference to how much damage you are inflicting (or how much of an ass kicking you are taking).

    Long live 8th Edition. I hope in the future I can find a community of players like me who will continue to keep this particular game alive. Otherwise I’ll be destined to sit in my cave and play both sides of the same battle whilst simply letting the dice decide on the outcome. :-(

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  11. Damien Dean AUSTRALIA Google Chrome Mac OS says:

    I’d just like to add, for those that haven’t yet discovered this.

    check out http://www.the-ninth-age.com

    its a community based game system to update the rules of 8th and prolong the legacy.
    well worth a read. Its been around for about 6 months now and appears to be gaining traction.

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  12. Rick NEW ZEALAND Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Damien Dean:

    I heartily recommend giving Kings of War a go. It is not a substitute for WFB it is a much better and a more balanced game in my opinion. Fast, furious and a heap of fun. It reminds me of backgammon ! Simple rules and endless strategic depth. Don’t sell your fantasy armies till you’ve had a go ! It’s gained huge amounts of traction downunder. All run by folk who actually care about their customers.

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  13. Daniel Ang Google Chrome Windows says:

    Seeing how this article is quite wrong I really can’t help but want to comment.
    There had been much updates to Age of Sigmar, all those units with goofy rules have been updated with proper in-games rule.

    The old warscroll are still around for people to use them. The lower model count means more time playing and you can have more small armies instead of just 1 or 2 massive one.
    You can now buy whatever you like and put them in a game, a Slann Mage, a Vampire Lord and a Goblin Shaman in the same army? Yes you can.

    I really don’t understand all the focus in balance. WHFB had no balance, all forces were not equal, there were clearly some armies that were more competitive than others, certain builds were preferable etc.
    No matter what edition. All you have is perceived balance because my army point make up is the same as yours. It is silly, and it makes some army overpowering.
    So all your complaint about balance is invalid.

    Lastly you sound like a person who haven’t tried the game. And will not try it. Why hate it when you don’t know anything about it? Honesty you are just sad that the old world and “ranks and files” are gone. But no one said that you can’t play AoS with “ranks and files”.. Just that the battle mechanic will break them out into disorganize troop if you pile in. Else you can still to using spearmen in defensive mode arranged in a rank and file formation. AoS did not take that away from you.

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  14. Luke Maciak UNITED STATES Mozilla Firefox Windows Terminalist says:

    ravenboi wrote:

    BTW check out Infinity. Amazing models. Amazing rules. Amazing fluff. A company that cares for their fans. What more could you want?

    It’s on my radar. I’m currently happily playing Warmachine which is an amazing game with great balance and awesome support from the parent company. Privateer Press seriously rocks, and I have no clue how I have put up with Games Workshop BS for so long. I have also gotten into Malifaux as of late.

    Infinity minis look great… Well, most of them. I have issues representation in some particular models of them, but that’s neither here or there. They’ve been getting better at it, and I’ve been actually considering picking up a starter pack. :)

    @ Rick:

    I bought the KoW rule book, but I haven’t played it yet. I like the rules, but I think we’re all just sore over the whole AoS thing still. I just can’t bring myself to play another game with my WFB minis. Soon though…

    Daniel Ang wrote:

    There had been much updates to Age of Sigmar, all those units with goofy rules have been updated with proper in-games rule.

    The only updates I’ve seen were for Stormfront Eternals and Bloodkhorne Blood Blatters. Oh, wait, by updates do you mean the, absolutely awful, ugly as sin, mono-pose fyre-slayer minis? Or the fact that GW discontinued Tomb Kings and Bretonia?

    Daniel Ang wrote:

    You can now buy whatever you like and put them in a game, a Slann Mage, a Vampire Lord and a Goblin Shaman in the same army? Yes you can.

    Or Screaming Bell and Fateweaver, combined with the GW promotional Tzeench dice with a 7 in place of 6, so I can auto-win every game on turn 1. Or one of the other 7 turn one-win combos.

    If I wanted bunch of random minis from different armies on the table, I could do that in 8th edition too, if I discussed it with the other player and they were fine with it. In AoS you literally have to negotiate model selection and deployment with the other player to make sure one of you doesn’t accidentally win the game on the first round.

    Daniel Ang wrote:

    I really don’t understand all the focus in balance. WHFB had no balance, all forces were not equal, there were clearly some armies that were more competitive than others, certain builds were preferable etc.
    No matter what edition. All you have is perceived balance because my army point make up is the same as yours. It is silly, and it makes some army overpowering.
    So all your complaint about balance is invalid.

    “GW is bad at balancing armies, therefore balance is a bad thing”. Do you even listen to yourself?

    I started playing Warmachine, and while not perfect, the game balance is really solid. You know why? Because Privateer Press actually cares. Since AoS came out, they released like 3 official erratas with balance rule tweaks, one of which literally turned the competitive meta upside down. They listen to player feedback, do statistical analysis on tournament data, see what gets picked, which armies consistently win, which units never see the table, and modify the rules accordingly.

    Game balance is a process. It takes effort. And it’s hard to achieve it using the GW model: one book at a time, without player input, or tournament scene data analysis. But at least, in the past they tried. AoS is total cop-out. Balance is hard, so let’s have none of it. That’s silly.

    Daniel Ang wrote:

    Lastly you sound like a person who haven’t tried the game. And will not try it. Why hate it when you don’t know anything about it?

    I spectated a game. Two dudes set up their minis, then they chose sudden death rule, nominated the target, rolled off. On turn 1 the first guy had his entire wood elf army in range to the sudden death target, and able to shoot him due to funky targeting rules. Then they decided to play 8th ed instead.

    I also watched bunch of battle reports. Most of them started with 20 minute explanation of the comp system the people were using, because “no points” thing is ridiculous. Also, how they measure from bases rather than from models, and dozen of other house rules. Then the players just moved their miniatures into the middle of the table and rolled dice for a solid hour.

    There was literally one game I saw, that did not end up in a giant, ugly pile-up in the middle of the table. That was the game where Ogres stomped the not-space-marines into the ground without a single casualty on like turn 3.

    I gave it a chance. The game is really, really bad. Games are either ridiculously un-fun sweeps, when you get tabled on turn 2, or even less fun, clusterfuck pile-ups in the middle of the table.

    Sorry, I’ll play Warmachine instead, where you are actually supposed to play middle of the table by design, but games never look like ugly pile of minis just lying there.

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  15. E Saenz Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Dimitri:
    You are correct. The Age of Sigmar is a corruptable attempt to dove- tail on the success of 40K. I feel so terrible for all who have invested painting time and money to their deposed armies. If they change 40K with a new gamming structure, you will lose the pioneer players who evolved with the game. Milton Bradley never changes Monopoly to make it less competitive. Lastly, what kind of gosh designing models is Sigmar spawning. I have not seen a good looking mini that does not look like the pox or the dismissed 40K designs that never made it to production. Enough with the over-done textures and ornamentation!!!!!!!!! No more hammers please.

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  16. Rick NEW ZEALAND Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Luke Let us know what you think of KoW when you have a go ! Fantasy game of choice in my region now.

    I was greatly taken with the latest offering from Perry Miniatures, the Agincourt range, so I bought myself 3 boxes and have just started painting. Just beautiful. I was going to look at the Osprey rules “Lion Rampant” to play the army but have discovered via the Mantic Forum that if you leave magic and flying out of the equation the army will play just fine using Kings of War Rules. A sort of “cinema’ version of history war-gaming, if you like. Somebody also mentioned that Allessio (of GW, and now Mantic fame) is adapting a rulebook to play historic games under the umbrella of Kings of War.

    All my Warhammer Fantasy Arnies slot almost seamlessly into KoW Army Lists and and the game has become a delight to play again. As strategic as you want to make it, but most importantly “fun’ !

    GW has no relevance anymore in my leisure activities; I am just about over my anger at their shoddy and arrogant treatment. I actually have some shares in their company which I bought as a gesture of support back in the day, which I will unload just as soon as their price stops heading towards the floor. I suggest that any former players do what I have done and have nothing further to do with them. Voting with your feet and wallet is the only thing they understand. They are not remotely interested in in your, or my, opinions.

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  17. Nick AUSTRALIA Google Chrome Windows says:

    The thing is GW has done this right before. War of the Ring was an expansion for Lord of the Rings that gave it Warhammer-like rules for larger battles, yet did not replace the core game. A sensible strategy would have been to do the same thing with Age of Sigmar. 40K also has a number of expansions that add new rulesets yet do not impact the original game.

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  18. Silvanor NETHERLANDS Google Chrome Windows says:

    Hey everyone,
    I’m new to the whole warhammer thing mainly because of the upcoming game Total war: Warhammer. It looked so cool that i wanted to check out the original version. But on the site i couldn’t find the main armies. So i was confused but now i see the new rules it really sucks they don’t support the 8th edition anymore. I really want to get into it but i don’t know if it’s even worth it if i make an army with the risk i can’t play with it very well anymore. It makes me sad and i hope they see the mistake that they made and release maybe a version along side it.

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  19. Pingback: Warhammer and the Age of Sigmar’s “Roleplaying” Rules | The Roleplayer's Guild UNITED STATES PHP

  20. Rhed CANADA Safari Mac OS says:

    I am old. I am set n my ways. I have been playing since 91 and was pissed at the first change. 2nd edition changed the game and I had to adapt. Fine! No more warp gift plasma guns! I can deal with that. I’m going to play dwarves! And the story kept going… What!? No more dwarf spearmen? Okay – they can live on the shelf in the back of the room. And it continued… Why the hell are these minis so damn expensive? I don’t care if some kid in the states swallowed one, give me back my cheap lead minis! And on and on. New rule books- check. New army books – check. whoa! We finally have a GW in town! Just in time for 5th edition top ups before we secretly launch 6 and your heroes are just the stuff of legend. Wood elves and halflings? Why the hell are these minis so expensive!? They are freaking plastic! Pssssht…have a hot pot and an Ent. 8th is it for me. It’s like a bad marriage, GW. They got 25 years out of me. They can keep the new…Ill keep the old.
    Now if they would only bring back my Squats for 40k, I might see my way to forkiving them.

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  21. Josh UNITED STATES Google Chrome Linux says:

    I’m all for simplifying rules to bring more gamers. After all, it’s what D&D did when it switched from AD&D 2e to 3e and, as a long-time player, there were some disgruntled members, but most things went well and it improved the fan base. AoS doesn’t seem to have brought that simplicity with it. It’s one thing to make a game simpler, it’s another to destroy the game entirely in hopes a fan-base for a new system will rise from the ashes.

    When D&D went to 4e, I quit playing. Simply put. I’m sticking with a better version. Where Warhammer is concerned, I’m sticking with 8th. I’ve already gotten 2 friends into it and I can still buy models from Ebay and probably can long enough to purchase 2 armies, enough for a new player. Hopefully, GW will return to its roots, but until then, se la vie

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  22. Jon Wyant UNITED STATES Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    I too have not played in years but have a huge empire army. I was looking forward to getting back into playing until I went onto GW site and it wasn’t clear how it changed but was obvious it had. After reading this site I too am dissapointed in the change and do not see myself pursuing Warhammer anymore. GW always did change the rules in a way that persuaded fans to have to spend more money though it is a business. I am going to look into KoW.

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  23. Billy UNITED STATES Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    I was surprised they added the bribery IRL to activate an in-game mechanic. If a game of AoS was being played by a US national and a foreign national with ANY ties to the foreign government, lets say even voting rights in a democratic government, then there are federal bribery laws prohibiting and punishing such activity.

    Pretty wild stuff!

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